Indie sleaze is a coined term in the broadest sense, like hippie or other subcultures that are discussed after time of the ending. As someone who lived through this time, of course it’s not a term anyone used during then because that’s never how these movements were analyzed prior to current day with an influx of aesthetics rather than rooted subcultures. It’s generalized because that’s all that people can do who didn’t live during the time or know much about it. I don’t disagree, because of course it’s a marketing tool, but history often generalizes and lumps multiple groups and sub groups into one category that doesn’t make complete sense.
Ur right…it’s only gen z and younger that are aware of the aesthetic they are subscribing to because of social media…we just were influenced irl n there was no name for it…it was all a symptom of tumblr MySpace and emo infiltrating pop culture
Subcultural groups are dead. Ive been watching old interviews of punks, mods, rockers, skinheads, and gay subgroups from the 60s-90s, and those categories absolutely don’t exist anymore. They were treated as circus freaks/ non-conformists by the traditional media at the time. But importantly these groups of individuals were resilient, rebellious, had a strong sense of community, politics and identity.
But Zoomers nowadays are too embarrassed to fully embrace one subs culture, it would be ‘too cringe’ or ‘trying too hard’. Instead, in postmodernity these eras have all been blended into one. The clothing fashion styles and the hairstyles are amalgamated into one ‘cool’ style.
The groups of people who dress in this new style all really represent/ stand for the same normie, conformist ideals. They don’t have a political identity behind their aesthetic identity, there’s no substance or culture beneath it, they just thought it looked cool on a mood board.
The millennial tumblr aesthetic & Brooklyn hipster aesthetic (circa 2010-2016) is kind of a re-imitation of skinhead fashion in the 1970s and 80s; rolled up skinny jeans, tucked in polos/shirts, suspenders, Dr.Martens but mixed in with modern elements such as beards, man buns, branded clothes. The tumblr/brooklyn hipsters didn’t listen to rebellious music, they weren’t oppressed by society, they weren’t punk rock. Their aesthetic was fulfilled by oat milk lattes, buzzfeed articles and by owning small dogs.
The new zoomer aesthetic is a re-imitation of late 90s, early 2000s hardcore skater culture. Baggy jeans, drop shoulder graphic tees, striped adidas shoes, mixed in with mullets, moustaches and short shorts from the 80s. The clothes aren’t ‘vintage or charity shop’, they’re expensive remakes of that style. Most zoomers are too embarrassed to get into a hardcore mosh pit, and would hate the idea of their phone being knocked out of their hand as they cannot film it. Rigid, stiff, sexless and allergic to dance.
This is somewhat true, many zoomers are like this. However, as a zoomer, I assure you that actual punks, skinheads (SHARPs), goths, rockers, non-conformists, etc. etc. still exist, and I know this because I am friends with them. As you pointed out, it’s no longer possible to ascertain someone’s belonging to a subcultural group based solely on their aesthetic and style choices. But it’s still been possible for me just by talking to them. (And going to venues, shows, student clubs, squats, protests, parties, raves..) The moshing thing is true of some people, but I know plenty of people who love to mosh, some of them have an extremely alternative look and some of them don’t look alternative at all. I also think it’s overall a good thing that it’s easier than ever to try out different clothing styles, music genres, ideologies. For many it will be a phase, but so what? As long as they aren’t being antisocial then the more the merrier.
Don’t make ask my ex to dig up the emails between Carles from hipster runoff about the I LOVE NEON party pictures in Montreal, the home of American Apparel.
Really though, the invention of ‘indie sleaze’ is textbook ‘periodization’: the same way baroque artists did not self define as baroque and Bauhaus artists did not self-define as Bauhaus, we look back and periodize. Nobody literally thinks it happened, and I feel it assumes people are dumber than they are to pretend we think this.
It is also pretty clear the term was generated from style accounts on Tiktok, not a fast fashion psy-op. I find these critiques of “micro-trends’ misguided and poorly researched : my mutual Style Analytics is responsible for about half of the terminology and is just a cool girl who aggregates Pinterest searches. People simply get mad once she has created a label for aesthetics which are happening organically and blame big-Fast Fashion for supposedly planting them
A bit of a stretch, I bet no one during the baroque period went around calling themselves baroque musicians either. I was in my early 20s in the late 2000s and 'indie sleaze' is a fun and fitting description of the style a lot of my friends went in for.
In Manchester, between 2005 and 2008 (or so), we used the term "sleazy electro" to refer to stuff that had filthy basslines and big, compressed drums (Performance, The Whip, Justice, Digitalism, etc.)
You're right in saying that we never used the words "indie" and "sleaze" together (Pete Doherty's look was known as "heroin chic", I think), but there was definitely some sleaze in the air.
Twee goes back much further- to C86 record label in the mid-80s- so there is an unacknowledged level of generation loss when the era of Deschanel is used as original referent. Ditto emo, which was watered down enough and watered down further with "scene" and became mostly a Hot Topic (or wherever) affect. The actual original subcultures deserve mention.
Indie sleaze is a posthumous name for a subculture that I grew up with, and am therefore fond of. I think of it as “millennial hipster culture” and associate it with the beginnings of Facebook as a political entity (revolutions happening across the Middle East sparked by Facebook posts), techno optimism, Occupy Wall Street, and a grunge revival/alternative music movement that was made popular by nascent streaming platforms. I was a hipster in 2010, and adamantly denied being a hipster when called out on it. My era peaked when I was working at a silkscreen studio in Williamsburg, wearing skinny jeans that I had patched by hand, and was attending free concerts for then unknown bands like OK GO. This was a time when my cool friends would send me buzzfeed posts that were covering political issues, and kombucha was a new thing. There was outrage amongst this crowd when the first Whole Foods and Apple Store moved into Williamsburg. The overall feeling was nihilistic but also hopeful, like tech was going to bring us to a better and more connected future.
Indie sleaze is a coined term in the broadest sense, like hippie or other subcultures that are discussed after time of the ending. As someone who lived through this time, of course it’s not a term anyone used during then because that’s never how these movements were analyzed prior to current day with an influx of aesthetics rather than rooted subcultures. It’s generalized because that’s all that people can do who didn’t live during the time or know much about it. I don’t disagree, because of course it’s a marketing tool, but history often generalizes and lumps multiple groups and sub groups into one category that doesn’t make complete sense.
Ur right…it’s only gen z and younger that are aware of the aesthetic they are subscribing to because of social media…we just were influenced irl n there was no name for it…it was all a symptom of tumblr MySpace and emo infiltrating pop culture
Subcultural groups are dead. Ive been watching old interviews of punks, mods, rockers, skinheads, and gay subgroups from the 60s-90s, and those categories absolutely don’t exist anymore. They were treated as circus freaks/ non-conformists by the traditional media at the time. But importantly these groups of individuals were resilient, rebellious, had a strong sense of community, politics and identity.
But Zoomers nowadays are too embarrassed to fully embrace one subs culture, it would be ‘too cringe’ or ‘trying too hard’. Instead, in postmodernity these eras have all been blended into one. The clothing fashion styles and the hairstyles are amalgamated into one ‘cool’ style.
The groups of people who dress in this new style all really represent/ stand for the same normie, conformist ideals. They don’t have a political identity behind their aesthetic identity, there’s no substance or culture beneath it, they just thought it looked cool on a mood board.
The millennial tumblr aesthetic & Brooklyn hipster aesthetic (circa 2010-2016) is kind of a re-imitation of skinhead fashion in the 1970s and 80s; rolled up skinny jeans, tucked in polos/shirts, suspenders, Dr.Martens but mixed in with modern elements such as beards, man buns, branded clothes. The tumblr/brooklyn hipsters didn’t listen to rebellious music, they weren’t oppressed by society, they weren’t punk rock. Their aesthetic was fulfilled by oat milk lattes, buzzfeed articles and by owning small dogs.
The new zoomer aesthetic is a re-imitation of late 90s, early 2000s hardcore skater culture. Baggy jeans, drop shoulder graphic tees, striped adidas shoes, mixed in with mullets, moustaches and short shorts from the 80s. The clothes aren’t ‘vintage or charity shop’, they’re expensive remakes of that style. Most zoomers are too embarrassed to get into a hardcore mosh pit, and would hate the idea of their phone being knocked out of their hand as they cannot film it. Rigid, stiff, sexless and allergic to dance.
This is somewhat true, many zoomers are like this. However, as a zoomer, I assure you that actual punks, skinheads (SHARPs), goths, rockers, non-conformists, etc. etc. still exist, and I know this because I am friends with them. As you pointed out, it’s no longer possible to ascertain someone’s belonging to a subcultural group based solely on their aesthetic and style choices. But it’s still been possible for me just by talking to them. (And going to venues, shows, student clubs, squats, protests, parties, raves..) The moshing thing is true of some people, but I know plenty of people who love to mosh, some of them have an extremely alternative look and some of them don’t look alternative at all. I also think it’s overall a good thing that it’s easier than ever to try out different clothing styles, music genres, ideologies. For many it will be a phase, but so what? As long as they aren’t being antisocial then the more the merrier.
Ruby, what is this blatant Quebeçois erasure! 😂
Don’t make ask my ex to dig up the emails between Carles from hipster runoff about the I LOVE NEON party pictures in Montreal, the home of American Apparel.
Really though, the invention of ‘indie sleaze’ is textbook ‘periodization’: the same way baroque artists did not self define as baroque and Bauhaus artists did not self-define as Bauhaus, we look back and periodize. Nobody literally thinks it happened, and I feel it assumes people are dumber than they are to pretend we think this.
It is also pretty clear the term was generated from style accounts on Tiktok, not a fast fashion psy-op. I find these critiques of “micro-trends’ misguided and poorly researched : my mutual Style Analytics is responsible for about half of the terminology and is just a cool girl who aggregates Pinterest searches. People simply get mad once she has created a label for aesthetics which are happening organically and blame big-Fast Fashion for supposedly planting them
Hahaha! Working at AA in Montreal in the 2010s was like being in the court of Louis XIV. True scene royalty! The NEON were very real!!!
I LOVE NEON PARTYYYYY YES!!
i love how this article’s analysis turned out, thank you for taking the time to write it!
A bit of a stretch, I bet no one during the baroque period went around calling themselves baroque musicians either. I was in my early 20s in the late 2000s and 'indie sleaze' is a fun and fitting description of the style a lot of my friends went in for.
yes! it feels like people are basing their identity off of their aesthetics instead of the other way around
Nice article. I agree, indie sleaze is definitely a retrofitted label.
https://triumphofentropy.substack.com/p/the-death-of-nostalgia?r=2i4vwu I have a few things to say about it here that might be of interest.
In Manchester, between 2005 and 2008 (or so), we used the term "sleazy electro" to refer to stuff that had filthy basslines and big, compressed drums (Performance, The Whip, Justice, Digitalism, etc.)
You're right in saying that we never used the words "indie" and "sleaze" together (Pete Doherty's look was known as "heroin chic", I think), but there was definitely some sleaze in the air.
Twee goes back much further- to C86 record label in the mid-80s- so there is an unacknowledged level of generation loss when the era of Deschanel is used as original referent. Ditto emo, which was watered down enough and watered down further with "scene" and became mostly a Hot Topic (or wherever) affect. The actual original subcultures deserve mention.
Indie sleaze is a posthumous name for a subculture that I grew up with, and am therefore fond of. I think of it as “millennial hipster culture” and associate it with the beginnings of Facebook as a political entity (revolutions happening across the Middle East sparked by Facebook posts), techno optimism, Occupy Wall Street, and a grunge revival/alternative music movement that was made popular by nascent streaming platforms. I was a hipster in 2010, and adamantly denied being a hipster when called out on it. My era peaked when I was working at a silkscreen studio in Williamsburg, wearing skinny jeans that I had patched by hand, and was attending free concerts for then unknown bands like OK GO. This was a time when my cool friends would send me buzzfeed posts that were covering political issues, and kombucha was a new thing. There was outrage amongst this crowd when the first Whole Foods and Apple Store moved into Williamsburg. The overall feeling was nihilistic but also hopeful, like tech was going to bring us to a better and more connected future.